The babies, sextuplets, were born at the B.C. Women's Hospital in early January of this year. You may recall this story. When two of the babies died because the parents who are Jehovah's Witnesses refused to allow their babies to have blood transfusions, the remaining 4 were seized by the province and 3 were given the transfusions.
Shane Brady, the lawyer for the family, said the parents had a constitutional right to a hearing before the government seized their children and made the decision to allow them to have the transfusions, and believes the court should rule in their favor. "The family's very upset with what happened," Brady said in an interview. "They were never given an opportunity to defend themselves."
The four surviving babies, two boys and two girls, are now healthy. Brady would not however elaborate on their condition.
The B.C. Liberal government allowed doctors to perform blood transfusions on three of the children. Control over the medical future of the babies was given back to the parents by the government after they launched the court proceedings.
A court hearing was originally scheduled for Feb. 21, but that date was postponed after the B.C. Ministry of Children and Families asked for more time to sift through the volume of information in the case.
The babies, whose names are not being released, were born nearly three months before they were due, and were believed to weigh only 1.8 pounds each at birth.
What do you think about this? Did the parents have the right to deny their children the treatment they needed to live just because of their religious beliefs? Who is then responsible for the deaths of the children who did pass away? And what if these surviving babies need future lifesaving treatments, and are in the care of parents denying the right to proper medical attention? Who do you think is in the wrong here?
Note: the babies in this photo is a set of Canadian sextuplets not related to this case.
39 comments:
People have a right in this country to be free of religious persecution and I think that the court in BC infringed on that right. Though a tragic incident where these children died, I don't think anyone has the right to make someone go against their religious beliefs. Not to mention the fact that you are well within your rights to refuse medical treatment for yourself and your next of kin if they are unable to make those decisions for themselves so long as you are of sound mind. Personally, I think that those children should have been given every chance at life by their parents, but on the other side of the coin I can empathize and understand where they were coming from in refusing.
I think you are right, and that it is very well said. It is still unknown what will become of this. I will keep you posted on any updates.
this is just sick, i cant believe someone would let their babies die, they dont deserv to have those other kids. they should go to jail. i am so upset about this. what a couple or selfesh idiots, its their religion not the babys.
L.D.
it really isn't specific about why the babies needed transfusions or can they really say that the other ones died because they didn't have transfusions or simply because they were premature. also something I read on ctv about this argued that the doctors did not really present factual evidence arguing that the babies needed the transfusions.
i really don't the babies should have been seized it was violating a right of freedom although the babies have rights too but a lot of information wasn't given in the news. so it is hard to say whether it was right or not. i wouldn't deny that to my daughter but i am also not a jehovah witness. a lot of people with regligious beliefs feel that if these beliefs are violated that their child or whomever will not go to heaven or whatever the particular belief is whcih can be a difficult decision for any individual.
You're right Heather they are not releasing much information. At least they weren't where I looked (CBC), however when I searched another source, it does say that they doctors made a decision based on their presumptions, like what most doctors tend to do. It also says the doctors didn't want to chance waiting any longer to verify these theories, and allow anymore children to die.
judging by the fact that no more babies died after the rest were given the transfusions, id say they were right. i think thos parents should go to jail. i am discusted too.
LD
If they are going to deliver their babies at a hospital then they obviously did use some medical treatment. they are contradicting themselves, maybe if they didnt spend so much time knockin on peoples doors they would know they true values in life.
karen
there religious beliefs weren't against medical treatment it is having blood other than their own in their bodies. (blood transfusions..)
Wow, I remember this story, and like every other story in the news, I soon forgot about it. These babies deaths were a terrible incident. Myself, being a mother, don't understand how the parents of there babies could just sit back and refuse blood transfusions if they were so obviously needed for them to live. I would do anything for my son and would give my own life so that he could live. I think the parents, regardless of the religion, were very wrong in letting their babies just die since it could have been prevented. I wonder what they would do if anything came up in their other babies lives along the way of them growing up, what if one became fatefully ill and their life was at risk, would they step in then to help their child's health, to make responsible desicions to save their child's life? This is just outrageous!!
Heather's right...a Jehovah Witness has beliefs against receiving blood or blood products not against medical treatment in general. BUT! Every single person is within their rights to refuse any and all medical treatment for themselves, their next of kin or who they are next of kin for (ie parents for their children) so long as they are deemed mentally stable. We may not agree and we may not like it and things like this happen when medical procedures are refused...but we have to uphold people's basic human rights. Whether we agree with the choices or not, it's not our choice to make. Not to mention the fact that we as observers don't know the whole story. There are other ways of getting a person's blood volume up without using blood or blood products. Perhaps the doctors didn't present the family with all of the options before throwing a hissy fit and going to the courts. These babies could have been saved without necessarily having a blood transfusion. If you do some research, you'll see just how much giving these blood products has hurt the parents and their beliefs.
exactly..
other people make choices for people all the time...elderly, members with aterminal illness.. if someone chooses that their parent or family member for whom they are responsible be DNR for not evena religious reason its the same principle.. everyone has their reasons for anything..
it's quite frightening how some people vow for their "faith"... personally I think a lot of it is a bit strange and wrong... but I am a bit biased because I am of another faith, Christianity, which is different from Jehovah's witness. So I don't know... I vow for the protection of my child, not what some leader of my religion tells me. If my own pastor told me I could not do that for my child to save his life, I would not listen as I listen to God, and he leads me.
Maybe everyone has "rights" but what they did was not RIGHT! Such disregard for the human life.. I can't imagine ever doing that to my own child.
i wouldn't have done that to my child and i dont necessarily agree with it however i believe that peoples decisions needs to be looked at from an objective angle sometimes. people of different religions and cultures have different reasons for doing what they do sometimes...
but these are just babies, and like whoever said before, its not the kids belief it's the parents. it's not like they were brain dead and they pulled the plug, they could have gone on to be normal kids. just what do they think will happen if they get someone elses blood. what do they think babies are made of??!! they come from their mothers blood!!! what narrow minded people
Isn't it a bit more "narrow minded" to be so ignorant of someone else's religious views? Just because you don't agree doesn't mean you are right and they are wrong. And it's not about coming from their mother's blood, it's about taking blood of another. In thier faith, that's a cardinal sin and they point out numerous scriptures that they use to back up their beliefs...so it's not "some religious leader" telling them what to do. To them, it comes straight from God.
I can't testify to any such religion because i'm not a very religious person, but to me , no such god, no bible, no scriptures, nothing ,would ever make it alright to let my child or anyone elses child die because of an unwanted medical procedure, I'm all for religious rights but the parents decision that a blood transfusion is ungodly , just doesn't seem to be higher in importance to letting the babies live to make their own choices in life. Just because receiving a blood transfusion, in their religion is a sin, doesn't mean it should never be done. As in all religions there are proposed acts which are "sins" ,but there have always been and will always be people who commit these sins and come to god(or other creator) to be forgiven, so when faced with the choice to get the transfusion ,let your child live and pray to god for forgiveness for the rest of your live these parents obviously made the wrong decision.
Why is it that these parents don't wish their children to have medical intervention but obviously they used medical intervention in conceiving these children in the first place (Fertility treatments)?
I think if modern medical science was good enough to use to conceive the babies it should also be good enough to save them. The parents can't cry religious persecution if they went against their own religion to have the babies in the first place?
if you look at the posts above you will see again that it is not about medical interventions but having someone elses blood inside their body. that is wht they consider going against their religion.
It's really easy for us to sit here and judge whether these parents did what we think is right or wrong and for people who are not devoute members of that particular religion it's very difficult to understand where they are coming from. But think about it this way...how would YOU feel if you were doing what you thought was best for your child and someone got the law on their side, took that child away from you and did the total opposite of what you were doing and there was nothing you could do about it. The fact that children died and religion aside, that's just plain wrong in my books. There was no legal ground for doing what the BC governement did and in doing so, they have set themselves up with a precedent of people being able to do the same thing for different reasons in the future. It's a slippery slope that they've gotten themselves into with this one, I think. Next you'll see adament breastfeeders petitioning the court and having formula fed children taken away and forcibly breastfed because they deem formula as bad...or vice versa. Anti extended nursing folks forcibly taking children and making them wean when they reach "weaning" age...and Lord only knows the whole host of issues this can of worms has opened up.
Breastfeeding has nothing to do with this. Not breastfeeding a child is not going to kill them. Your argument is irrelevant..
If a precedent has been set not to deprive babies of life saving medical treatment , then Thank God ...if people can't breastfeed its not their fault , but if you willing let your child die it is your fault ,extremely irrelevant...
Here is a list of things that jehovah witnesses believe just so some ppl get the point how many of these rules have been broken over time...
1. Jehovah God is not a Trinity
2. The doctrine of the Trinity is inspired by Satan
3. Jesus Christ is a created being, who at one time did not exist (a.k.a.Michael the archangel)
4. The Holy Spirit is not a person but is "God's active force" i.e. gravity, electricity etc.
5. Heaven is only for select Jehovah's Witnesses
6. Heaven is limited only to 144,000 Jehovah's Witnesses
7. Jehovah's Witnesses are the only true Christians
8. There is no Hell (It is simply the grave)
9. There is no life after death (except for the 144,000)
10. Salvation is by good works not by Grace
11. You cannot be sure of salvation
12. Jesus is not to be worshiped or prayed to
13. Jesus did not rise from the dead bodily but as a spirit being
14. You are discouraged from attending college
15. The "first resurrection" occurred in 1918
16. All pastors are the "Antichrist"
17. All churches are of Satan
18. All governments are controlled by Satan
19. You cannot take a blood transfusion
20. You cannot be a police officer
21. You cannot salute the flag, stand for the national anthem, or own a flag
22. You cannot serve in the military
23. You cannot buy girl Scout cookies
24. You must attend five meetings per week
25. Jesus'second coming occurred in 1914 (only known to Jehovah's Witnesses)
26. You cannot marry a non-Jehovah's Witness
27. If one does not follow the rules of the Watchtower they will be shunned
28. You cannot read Christian literature from a Christian book store
29. You cannot be a cheerleader
30. You cannot celebrate any holidays (Christmas, Easter, etc.)
31. You cannot celebrate your birthday
32. You cannot run for or hold a political office
33. You cannot vote in any political campaign
34. You cannot serve on a jury
35. You are discouraged from giving to charity (except Watchtower causes)
36. You cannot speak to former members who are shunned (disfellowshipped)
37. You cannot accept Christmas gifts
38. You must read and study Watchtower literature regularly
39. Only Jehovah's Witnesses can understand the Bible
40. Angels direct the Watchtower organization
41. Jesus did not die on a cross but an upright pole
42. You cannot own or wear a cross
43. You must report your witnessing activity to the elders
44. You must go from door to door weekly to gain converts
45. You cannot have friends who are not Jehovah's Witnesses
46. You must refer to all Jehovah's Witnesses as "brother" or "sister"
47. You cannot play chess*
48. You cannot understand the Bible without Watchtower literature to explain it
49. A child abuser is reported to Watchtower elders and not the police
50. You must forgo vacations to attend annual conventions
51. You are discouraged from buying a two door car-A "Theocratic" or "spiritually strong" Jehovah's Witness will have a full size car for the door to door work
52. Men cannot wear beards
53. Men must wear short hair
54. Women cannot pray in the presence of men without a hat
55. You cannot have a tattoo
56. You're forbidden to use any tobacco products
57. Only officially approved sexual practices are allowed in marriage
58. You must appear before a Judicial committee if you are caught breaking Watchtower rules (Secret files are kept on all members which record these meetings-these files are kept in New York and are never destroyed)
59. You must not own wind-chimes (they are for chasing away evil spirits)*
60. You cannot read any anti-Jehovah's Witness material
61. You cannot use pet foods made with blood or blood products
62. You cannot join any clubs or sports teams
63. You cannot wear jade jewelry*
64. You cannot purchase Christian products (books, music, plaques, pictures etc.)
65. You cannot wear any Christian jewelry
66. Jehovah's Witness meeting places have no windows
67. If you see another Jehovah's Witness breaking the rules you must turn them in to the elders to be interrogated
68. Jesus could have sinned and failed in his mission
69. Jesus was not born the savior but became the savior at his baptism
70. The Watchtower organization is God's prophet on earth today
71. Women must submit to Watchtower elders
72. You cannot support your country
73. One must study Watchtower books at least six months before he can be baptized
74. Before baptism, one must answer over 80 questions in front of a panel of elders
75. Most of The Book of Revelation applies to the Jehovah's Witnesses
76. You cannot celebrate Mothers or Fathers day (it may produce pride)
77. Kingdom Halls cannot have pews for seating
78. JWs are are fobidden to say "good luck"
79. God is not omniscient "all knowing"
80. God is not omnipresent
81. God only speaks through the "Governing Body" in Brooklyn, New York
82. The Holy Spirit is only for select Jehovah's Witnesses
83. The Lord's supper is only to be eaten by select Jehovah's Witnesses (144,000 group-99.99% of Jehovah's Witnesses are forbidden from taking the Lord's supper)
84. The Lord's supper can only be offered once per year
85. JWs in times of crisis, are strongly discouraged from consulting with family counselors, including mental health professionals who are not Jehovah's Witnesses
86. Only faithful Jehovah's Witnesses will survive Armageddon
87. If you have a non-Witness spouse your first loyalty is to the elders over your spouse
88. Jesus was equal to Adam (just a man)
89. Judgment day is 1000 years long
90. If you leave Jehovah's Witnesses or are expelled from the organization you will not be resurrected
91. Only Jehovah's Witness prayers are heard by God
92. Man's salvation is secondary in God's plan; Jesus was sent to "vindicate Jehovah's name"
93. God will destroy all non-Jehovah's Witnesses at armageddon
94. You forbidden to say "God bless you" when someone sneezes.
95. You must never enter a church building
96. You must never attend a church service
97. You cannot be involved in martial arts, boxing or wrestling
98. You cannot participate in a school play
99. You cannot donate blood or your organs when you die
100. You can never question what is printed in Watchtower literature
10l. You are forbidden to attend a funeral of an ex-Jehovah's Witness
OK, this just goes to show a relation between them and Muslims for example. They (most of them) think that killing other religions is a calling of their god. So wrong, but that's what they believe. So my point is, just because they think its the right think to do. It's not right. These parents thought it was the right thing to do, maybe because they don't want to go to hell right? So doesn't that make them selfish? I dont know if I am getting my point across here, but I think that these parents were wrong in so many ways. You can argue all you want that it is their right, but in a court of law, one doesnt swear on a Jehovah bible they swear on a Christian Bible. There fore the Canadian Government recognizes this religion firstly in Canada. That's why I think the BC gov. was right to save the rest of these babies.
If a child is taken away for a "life-saving" blood transfusion and yet dies (which does happen, though apparently not in this case) do you think that the government should be held liable? Does it work both ways?
Heather states it pretty well.
Candace has presented a long, though innacurate, list. If some of the items read "discourage" rather than "cannot," that would help. Other items are flat-out wrong.
Right...so the rules get broken. That happens in every religion. It's when the rules get broken against a devout believer's will that there is an issue.
The list came from a jehovah witness himself, they are not my views of what they cannot do or what they discourage, he was asked to explain the beliefs of jehovah witnesses
actuallyin jehovah witness when the rules get broken or some of them at least they are shunned so to speak and not allowed to be part of that religion anymore. if a jehovah witness gets a divorce for whatever reason they are an ex-jehovah. it is not as compareable to christianity as one might think.
Many jw's must be getting shunned then ...Some things just have to be against the law , like not providing life-saving treatment to a child ..Go Canadian Government!
All I'm saying Candace is that to some it doesn't matter but to the really devout ones it does. And like Heather said about that shunning...these parents will now have to be forced to decide between their faith and their children who will likely have to be shunned. And, if the parents accept the children (which I hope they would!) then the entire family will likely be shunned which is devestating in a religous community.
And for the record, I'm just sort of playing Devil's Advocate here...we need to be able to look at both sides whether we agree with what these parents believe and what the government did or not.
Personally, I don't agree with a lot of what Jehovah Witnesses believe and I practice a different faith but I'm also a believer in human rights and the way I see it is that even though I don't agree with the parents choices, I also don't agree with the government being able to just do whatever they should so choose with no accountablitiy simply because it was what they deemed as "right". Yes those children likely lived as a direct result of the government's actions, but we don't have all the facts and we don't know that all other possible options were presented to the parents before their religious beliefs were imposed upon by someone with some sort of agenda to prove.
Actually, Julie...there are laws set up to allow for people to refuse medical treatment...
And thats fine if you believe it but i'll never stand up and say they have the right to let their kids die because of a religion ..it's just not human nature to sit and watch while your children pass away...
I don't believe it, but I believe that these people have a right to believe it...if you get what I'm saying. I think everyone is getting hot under the collar (and probably with good reason, really) because children died because of this incident. When in reality, children and adults alike die from receiving certain medical treatments too as well as a host of other things. People can live or die if they don't receive a transfusion and they can die if they do receive one. I just think that every other possible alternative should have been taken into consideration and done before the situation escalated to this and I believe that they should have at least tried to keep these people's beliefs involved. There are so many other things that could have been done before resorting to a transfusion that I'm sure weren't even tried and probably not even presented to the parents.
EXACTLY! i have been trying to say this since this morning... we don't know ALL of the facts on this and you really need to look at both sides of the story. would i do this to my daughter? no way. but..thats not my religion either lol one needs to be open minded and think critically about things by analyzing them and you really can't do that if you dont have all the facts..which...we don't!
For sure we dont know what all the aspects are but we're discussing the question of whether its right (i'm only debating the case of this treatment having to be done to save their lives)... so if someone were to ask me I would say I dont think it was right to let a baby die but if some of you think differently thats great , you have the right to your opinion
I believ they have the right to choose, I commend them for believing in their religion so much.
Oh please. Its a RELIGION. Something that you may BELIEVE in. there is no proof that ANY of that is actually REAL.
But those babies were certainly REAL. And the fact that they choice their stupid pathetic relgionion over their child just shows that they are SICK people. And screwed up in the head!
I hope they never see the children they have left! And I hope they rot in prison for what they did. You can use fertility drugs to get pregnant, if your a jehov? but you can't get blood? WTH?!?!
People who are Catholic, sin all the time, like I'm sure other religious ppl do, its nature. And once the Catholics pray for forgiveness, all is forgotten, and they move on with their life...
Isn't there some type of space alien this morons could have bowed to? to have their "sin" forgotten??
PATHETIC!!!
im not a jehovahs witness, but my family is, and i can say, that the list of things jehovahs witnesss follow, is so wrong. you say you got this list from a jehovahs witness, but you obviously didnt. more then 70 percent of that list is incorrect, by a long run, please dont make a fool of yourself by posting a large list of incorrect facts, before you judge something, you need to be one hundred percent open minded and try it. then you would be able to bad mouth witness's if you still felt it needed.
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